Target archery history in Germany

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Tuomo
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Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Tuomo » 07.11.2014, 10:11

Hallo!

I am writing a book of primitive bows and archery in Finnish language. It will be the first book of that subject in Finnish. I have been writing about three years now and there is a lot of work still to do! There is quite active primitive arcery society here in Finland, so there is a real need for this kind of book. My aims are very high and I want to create something new, not just repeat the old "facts". The book will be full colours and has about 500-600 pages.

I would like to know some information of history of target archery and bowhunting in Germany. Target archery and bowhunting history in England and USA is well known but I have not found any information from Germany. One reason is that my German is passable... So, if you have some information from Middle Ages to 1940 (to glass bow era), it would be great! Books, articles, images, anecdotes, etc., also in German. I am interested in just hand bows, not crossbows.

And if you some information about primitive archery culture nowadays in Germany, it would be great too.

Here you can see my webpage for the book (in Finnish language): www.puujousi.fi

And here you can see my Youtube-channel, a lot of slow motion videos: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmVczwYUfq6sQQjCmKd2q5Q

Vielen Dank!

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Squid
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Squid » 07.11.2014, 10:39

I think, first of all german primitive archers may be our Ravenheart.
He started building bows in the early 80ies (I think so), a time, when there was no Internet or even books about this topic.
So he learned it the hard way. Try and fail, trial and error.

Then we have Snake-Jo. He is - as far as I know - a professor in biologics and an expert for asian recurve bows.

Another contact could be Acker - he was infected with the bow-building-virus about 8 years ago (by me ;D ) and built more than 200 bows (most laminatet but even many primitiv or selfbows).
Es ist mir egal ob schon mal jemand sowas gebaut hat.
Ich will ja nicht unken, aber in der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle geht das schief.

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jetsam
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von jetsam » 07.11.2014, 11:03

EEEEERBSCHEN!
Dies ist die Welt.
Wundervolle und schreckliche Dinge werden geschehen.
Sei ohne Furcht.

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Squid
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Squid » 07.11.2014, 11:05

Me not know...
Me stupid? ;)
;D
Es ist mir egal ob schon mal jemand sowas gebaut hat.
Ich will ja nicht unken, aber in der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle geht das schief.

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jetsam
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von jetsam » 07.11.2014, 11:18

Erbschen.jpg
Bogenbauer, Historiker, Archäologe, Kurator des (aktiven) Friedländer Heimatmuseums und was weiß ich noch alles
Erbschen.jpg (16.65 KiB) 12167 mal betrachtet

Erbschen
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Wohnort: 17098 Friedland Meckl.

;)

This guy is bowyer, archaeologist, curator of an active historic museum in eastern part of Germany, as far as I know he´s deep into reenactment and he is at least in close touch to (if not involved in) some finds they made in his area concerning ancient archery.
Dies ist die Welt.
Wundervolle und schreckliche Dinge werden geschehen.
Sei ohne Furcht.

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locksley
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von locksley » 07.11.2014, 11:28

The Main Problem will be, that there is no tradition in Target Archery or Bowhunting in Germany from the middle ages to the 1940s.

Hunting was always restricted in "Germany" From "Karl der Große" to " Hermann Göhring", it was allways reserved for the "Upper Class". The Main Weapon for hunting and also warfare in Germany wasn´t the Bow, it was the crossbow.

There are some regional differencences, but other than in Britain or USA it is no living tradition over the centurys. So its difficult to get Information about this Theme, because the historical sources are very meager.

A good Adress would be the Member "Jolinar" he does hie Master in History of the medieval Fletchers in Austria.
Ein grosser Mann wird weder vor dem Kaiser kriechen, noch einen Wurm zertreten (Benjamin Franklin)

Wenn das Atmen schwieriger waere, haetten wir weniger Zeit um Unsinn zu reden.

Wer die Wahrheit sagt, braucht ein verdammt schnelles Pferd (Sprichwort)

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Squid
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Squid » 07.11.2014, 12:13

@Jetsam: Oh, him... OK.
But it dont know him... just heard of him.
Es ist mir egal ob schon mal jemand sowas gebaut hat.
Ich will ja nicht unken, aber in der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle geht das schief.

Sateless
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Sateless » 07.11.2014, 12:35

Hi Tuomo and welcome! :)

You ask interesting questions, but they are hard to answer. Bowhunting is forbidden by law for a very long time. Germans preferred the crossbow and firearms for Hunting, because it was just an entertainment for aristocrats and they neither had the time, nor did they want to learn archery to a level where you can hunt successfully. Archery is still somewhat considered as primitive in the bad way. Later hunting stayed a sport for the elite with no changes in the view on archery.
Target Archery came to Germany somewhat arround 1900 as a sport nearly at the same time golf, for rich people. It was - of course - English longbow target shooting. There were shops importing archery gear from the UK and bows and arrows made in England were considered more fancy then others. This changed on and on, until archery found it's way back into the olympics in 1970. The so called primitive archery is a fairly new part of the sport. It came back into field archery somewhere in the last 10 or 20 years. (not sure about the start of it.)

Good Luck with your book!
Ich schreibe ohne Autokorrektur lesenswerter. Du etwa auch?
.مع سلامة في أمان السهم و القوس

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Squid
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Squid » 07.11.2014, 12:41

@Sateless: Confirmed pessimist...

;D
Es ist mir egal ob schon mal jemand sowas gebaut hat.
Ich will ja nicht unken, aber in der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle geht das schief.

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Haitha
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Haitha » 07.11.2014, 12:46

Hi Tuoama,
if I were you, I would try to contact some of the German oldtimers of archery like Harm Paulsen for example.

good luck

H
Fall down seven times, stand up eight.

Carve a little wood, pull a few strings and sometimes magic happens - Gepetto

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Squid
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Squid » 07.11.2014, 12:55

Its Harm Flintstone... ;) ;) ;)
And yes: He grew up with the bow...
Es ist mir egal ob schon mal jemand sowas gebaut hat.
Ich will ja nicht unken, aber in der überwiegenden Zahl der Fälle geht das schief.

Tuomo
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Tuomo » 08.11.2014, 06:10

Thank you for the replys! I will try to contact persons you suggested.

By the way, is there any good primitive/traditional archery books in Germany which are not translated into English? I have "Reflexbogen" and "Pfeil und Bogen", which are great. Good reason to learn German...!

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Haitha
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Haitha » 08.11.2014, 07:46

Just write a post in here if you need help with a translation.
No worries.
Fall down seven times, stand up eight.

Carve a little wood, pull a few strings and sometimes magic happens - Gepetto

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Wilfrid
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Re: Target archery history in Germany

Beitrag von Wilfrid » 08.11.2014, 09:22

Mein Englisch ist zu schlecht, vielleicht kanns einer übersetzen:
So ganz stimmts mit der nicht vorhandenen Bogentradition in D. nicht. Ich baue ja nun seltsame Bögen und schieße "verkehrt".

Allerdings bin ich nicht der einzige hier im Forum, Heidjer kennt diese Bogenform auch und Eddy schießt auch so "seltsam".
Ich habe das ganze von "den Alten " gelernt, und die wieder von ihren "Alten". Das ganze ohne schriftliche oder bildliche Überlieferung, es gibt hier in der Gegend noch so 2-3 andere, die sich aber ziemlich bedeckt halten...

Dann hatten wir hier mal die Präsentation eines Allamannenbogens erster Güte, der gute hat sich auch einen Bogen nach Überlieferung gebaut.
Was es überliefert nicht gibt/gab, Scheibenschießen. Die Selfbows wurden meist erstmal für Kinder gebaut und eben an allem möglichen ausprobiert. Also mehr Roven , wo´s keiner sieht.

My English is not good enough, so maybe someone will translate it.it´s not completely right , that there is no tradititon in building bows in Germany. Myself build "Strange" Bows shoot them over the thumb, not the normal medterean style.

But I´m not the only one here in the forum, heidjer knows this kind of Bows (Stellmacherbogen) and Eddytwobows also shoots in this strange way. I have learned from the old, an the also from the elder and so on. But not written or with picures, just from mouth to mouth. There are about 2-3 people here in the region but they don´t speak about.

Than ther was teh presentation of a real allamic bow here in the forum, built in old regional tradition.
But there is no tradition in target shooting, the selfbows were mostly built for children and anything was used as target, so like stumps etc."

This is what I ment with some regional traditions. Thank you Wilfrid. Translated by Locksley.

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